Gunfighter

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 526 Location: Warrior Nirvana

It is nice but I still would love to have an old 551 with side folding stock and rotating aperturerear sight. Awesome underarm rifle!
Hoff

Semper_Fi · Last edited by Semper_Fi on Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:44 pm; edited 2 times in total

I recall your favorable statements about the Sig 551 and I fam fired one in Virginia last year. The swing out butt stock, 14" barrel and 3 round select fire mode is an excellent LE CQB weapon...solid and well balanced.

Citizen Warriors, that's right I said Citizen Warriors, who wish to kick butt with a Sig can pick up a 556 or a 556 SWAT.

Thank you for the corrective kick in the a$$ Sensei!

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 526 Location: Warrior Nirvana

The term "lowly" cannot, and will not, be applied to a person who has equiped themselves, trained extensively, and has the skills, ability, means, and attitutude of the warrior. If that person happens to be of civilian status then that person is a Citizen Warrior.
Hoff

Semper_Fi

Equipped, trained and ready in mind, body and spirit...hooyaahhh!

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Arizona

Just an update on my on-going test and eval of the Sig 556 rifle...

Since my last posing I have taken this rifle to two seperate Police Patrol Rifle operators classes and allowed several other instructors and students to shoot it. As a result, the round count total through this rifle is now just over 1,500 rounds. It has not yet encountered any form of malfunction. It has not been cleaned since put into service, only oiled about every 500 rounds. It has been taken apart several times, to show others it's ease of disassembly, but never cleaned. I have not yet had to shift the gas port plug to the larger diameter setting due to fouling. (When this happens, or the first malfunction occured, the rifle will get cleaned....)

I tried a few different magazines with it and none effected performance at all, to include the magpul 30 round P-Mags, Brownells 30 round mags, Brownells and Colt's 20 round magazines.

I have found that it demonstrates fantastic accuracy with the Hornaday 55 grain T.A.P. ammunition, allowing .75 inch groups at 100 yards from the bench, using a red dot electric sight. (Smaller groups might be possible with better optics)

When using the rifle to demonstrate "CQB" distance rapid fire drills, I have been able to repeatedly empty a 28 round magazine into a 2 inch circle as fast as I can manipulate the trigger. (Not quite "full auto", but fast to say the least)

At this point, I am still quite impressed and pleased with this rifle.

As shooting progresses, I will keep you all posted.

Semper_Fi

Great update Tac and I'm getting similar 100 yard accuracy with 55 grain Winchester Ballistic Silvertip ammunition as your 55 grain Hornady TAP ammo. The Sig's 1:7 rifled barrel helps keep tight groups.

About 2,500 rounds have been fired through the 556 so far with flawless performance. The 556 has a solid feel and is well balanced, and the bolt and bolt carrier assembly are of highest quality.

Excellent CQB weapon...

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 103 Location: Seattle Metro Area

I'm going to kick in here to update some things.

I hold a 556 Commando. It's a side folder/slider with 551 profile handguards. At my instructor conference two weeks ago, I ran over 600 rounds through it in two days total. Great rifle and I'll have a more fleshed out update shortly.

For those wanting as near as possible 550/551, an outfit is working with Sig to create a 551. Actual 551 lower mated to a 556 upper, same sort of sights and so on. Not cheap, about $3700. Uses the 55X magazines as well which are not the cheapest either.

But I am thoroughly impressed with my 556. I expect that as Sig improves some small things with the platform, it will gain in popularity. Anyway, let me write up my review and post it here.

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Arizona

Thanks for the info Morris.

As for my 556... I recently upgraded my dot scope for an EOTech 512. I zeroed it and have taken it to a couple more ranges. My round count is now at about 2100 rounds without having been cleaned. I stopped lubing the bolt group, as I was finding that it was not burning off or drying up and there was no need. I still have not had one stoppage of any kind and have not needed to change the gas port setting.

I also changed out my slider AR style stock to an ACE 4-position "Club foot" aluminum stock. I like the more solid feel and it ballances better with the slightly heavier stock at the rear. My biggest appreciation for this stock comes from the foam tube pad and the fact that the slider is shorter and further back from my face, so I no longer have to deal with the problem I had with the old AR style slider stock. The problem with the old stock was that it liked to abuse me by plucking out numerous moustache hairs when I locked in and held a tight stance... If you don't have a moustache, you might not be able to relate, but trust me, it's painful and distracting to your shooting to say the least... Smile

This new stock completely removes the possibility of it continuing to happen.

-Tac

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 103 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Did you get an improved charging handle for the rifle? Also, do you find the base of the 512 mount to grab on to the rail with enough meat? There was a vendor at an instructor conference a few weeks ago complaining that there rails didn't have enough meat on the sides to fully mate and grab the base.

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Arizona

Morris,
I didn't have any problem at all mounting the EOTech on the rifle. I have had trouble finding a back up iron sight that would fit the rails, but the EOTech slipped on and bolted down without an issue.

As for the charging handle, I have not seen any other than the "stock" version. Mine is as shipped from the factory in that regard.

-Tac

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 103 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Do a search on YouTube or griffin-tactical.com

Guy makes a drop and curved handle for the 556, sells for about $55. On the flip side, the LE Sig rep told me that a redesigned handle from Sig is likely.

I got the handle and it does provide plenty of clearance.

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 103 Location: Seattle Metro Area

(Okay, here is my review. Originally posted on Sigforum.com)

(Sorry all, no HSLD photos as the camera went bye just before training)

About a month ago, I finally purchased a 556 Commando with 551 profile hand guards. Its serial number is in the 11XXX range. For some time, I had been following the 556 and it’s growing pains. My initial pre-firing evaluation of them was that the hand guards were solid but too bulky. Balance was off and the trigger reset was odd. I was turned off. But, I kept coming back to them in the dealer’s shop, handling and evaluating them. While I gladly drink Glock polymer flavored kool-aide, I am a lover of Sig handguns and corporate in general (my first duty pistol – P226). The more I handled the 556, the more it grew on me and I liked it.

My background is that I have been shooting some form of ARs for 20+ years. I hold certifications from Colt as an armorer and am a LE patrol rifle instructor. I’ve owned all sorts of things from an AK clone to a true import FAL to all matter of .223 shooters. I’ve even played with the 551/552s over the years (job related, nothing serious) and stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. I know a few rifles in my time so bear with me as I explain thoughts and comparisons.

This rifle was a previously owned rifle in which the owner had shot less than 40 rounds with it. He decided to go another direction and away from 5.56 platforms altogether. As previously mentioned, the 556 was a “commando” model, Magpul stock, folder/collapsible, green furniture.

Initial observations: finish was uniform and matching. Bolt carrier was gray, along with the gas tube. All parts appeared solid, fit well. Unfortunately, I found the hand guards to be a bit loose with some minor lateral movement, in about the same range as I get from some cheaper AR hand guards on other ARs. After looking at them, I believe a bit more material at the gas block end of the hand guards would be helpful in reducing some of the play but it would not need to be so much as to prevent the ease of installing and removal of the hand guards quickly (a poster recommended the loop Velcro/sticky back idea that I will try ASAP). There was an A2 flash hider mounted and the crush washer seemed a bit off center, not flush with the space. Functionally fine but aesthetically looking sloppy. After reading the manual and some minor work, I found I could strip the rifle to the standard components in about 45 seconds. The addition of the KNS Precision front pin I purchased went a long way to assisting with the speed of separating the upper and lower receiver assemblies.

It was here I tried to cheat. Being frugal (read: cheap), I picked up an ARMS 40L for use with the factory folder front sight. As previously written on this and other 556 affiliated boards, not a good match. The factory front sight is too short to use with a standard AR based BUIS so at 50 yards, the rounds were sailing over the target by about 1 & ¾ feet. Bummer. So a Samson front sight soon as a folder front BUIS to be purchased soon.

As I went off to an instructor conference in the high desert of Washington state (yeah, we have one, a desert, that is), I thought it would be good to take the 556 out and wring it out to see if things were true. The only ammo available for us was the department training stuff by HSM in the usual 55gn loads. It would do.

As mentioned in another thread I posted, the 556 was left with the Sig Sauer LE rep as part of his display. My intention was to partly show it off and partly to get some rounds through it to see how it would perform. A bit over 400 rounds were logged through it. During this time, no malfals, no FTFs or FTEs. Only complaint was that the forward end of the hand guards was hot and this was solely because the hot (90+ degrees) sun beat down on them. The rifle was well received and almost to an instructor, the 551 profile hand guards were preferred over the standard 556 hand guards. There was a suggestion of the 551 profile hand guards with short rails at 3 or 9 o’clock for light mounts but no other rails or attachments (lights for patrol rifles are a must in my business). Another selling point the rep and I used was to fire a full magazine, then pull out the bolt carrier assembly and place it in someone’s hands.

I logged in for a patrol rifle course, intending to use an Aimpoint M2 as the optics. Unfortunately, the M2 turned out to be a disappointment as the red dot was almost completely washed out in the bright sun, even at close distances. It appears that the M2 is malfunctioning and may have to be sent back to Aimpoint for a look over. It shouldn’t have been that dim. Well, guess the “emergency sights” would have to do.

After another 250 rounds expended in a three-hour block of instruction, I came to learn a few things about the rifle and confirmed a few other things. First, it’s okay to be a fan of rock and lock for your magazines. But not me. The ability of the 556 to accept magazines as straight insert and any mags that would fit the standard AR magazine well is a plus. For me, it’s a faster reload system in drills and training. I found that despite my hand size, the magazine release button was just forward enough to cause me to shift my grip slightly to press the magazine release. Minor but noticeable. In evaluation, this has pros and cons. On the pro side, this means no inadvertent mag releases (as I have occasionally done in the past with my ARs). On the con, it’s the slight shifting of the hand. Also, not ambidextrous but again, a minor issue. The safety selector took some getting used to. I learned that the best method for me was to flick the safety with my thumb, push it to safe with the index finger. I found this odd but realized it could be a positive in that the trigger finger is definitively off the trigger when going to safe. Different from the AR but certainly something that could be easily learned. Also, I need to pick up a Gapper, same as with the AR. That gap was rubbing the middle finger nicely.

Shooting the 556 was a pleasure. I like the flat face of the trigger. I find it more comfortable to press. I quickly learned the reset point and would only occasionally fail to fully extend the trigger to get that reset. On my rifle, the pull was smooth with a clean break. I chalk up the issue of reset to simply being tuned to stock AR triggers for so long. Follow up shots were faster than with a similar sized AR. Recoil pulse was easy, but then again, it's a 5.56 so . . . .

Where I felt the 556 shined was when it came time to clean the rifle. Despite the system, the upper receiver can and will get dirty after hundreds of rounds. The 556 was no different. However, the ease in which to pull everything apart makes for a positive system. Again, with the KNS front pin, everything separated quickly. The gas tube could be easily removed for cleaning. The hardest part was the depression of the firing pin to remove the retaining pin.

Now, before it appears that this is a completely puff piece in praise of the 556, I would caution that there are a few things I believe Sig needs to tweak. First, I would agree with some folks who have had issues with their folder. It seems that there could be a better pin setup that is durable versus a clip to a pin. Second, more details in the owner’s manual on the right things to use for cleaning out the gas plug and gas tube (I discovered that information from visiting Sigforum.com and sigarms556.com). Third, a true BUIS setup. Now, I recognize that the original 55X series does not have such a beast (all fixed sights). However, it strikes me that Sig could generate more positive interest if they had a durable and correct plane front/rear BUIS setup. I would even suggest that that Sig corporate work with folks like Aurora, Samson or even like GG&G to create and mount that setup, especially if they plan to sell that gun to cops like me or to serious shooters like many of us. Fourth, dump the silly double s..crew. Other than keeping the receivers securely together in a field expedient cleaning environment, that system offers no advantages. Fifth, spare parts. I am assuming that the trigger pack is the same as the 55X series (please correct me if I am wrong) so finding parts should be difficult. But one thing that keeps the AR, 1911 style pistol or even Glocks at the top of their respective heaps is the ease in which to get spare parts. Maybe things will improve as Sig gets more rifles into the hands of folks.

Presently, my upgrades include a Samson folding front sight and better red dot optics (EOTech on the top of the list). I’m still debating on the better sling setup: Tactical Link single point mounted to the Magpul stock or my Izzy/Zahal two point sling mounted to the gas block loop and the rear slot on the Magpul stock. Each offer advantages and disadvantages. I do have Kas’ charging handle (griffin-tactical.com) and learning about the curve on it versus the stock factory piece. On a side note, this is a well thought out piece and I only had a minor issue with the aggressive curve. Design is great though.

In all, I genuinely like this rifle. No, it's not an authentic 550/551 and I didn't expect it to be. It’s fun to shoot, shoots well, is reliable and with more accessories, will become a solid rifle in the gun owner and cop-using world. It won’t make any significant dents in the AR dominated world of black rifles but it will make some fans of the piston system. I would encourage those on the fence to get a hold of one and shoot it before you buy it. See if it fits for you and if you like the trigger and heft. When you decide to buy one, use quality magazines and ammunition and have fun. This gun definitely is fun!

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Arizona

Morris,
Thanks for the detailed report. I find alot of what you say to be true in my case, with my gun as well. Mine has the standard factory profile handguards and I find them large, bulky and heavy..... But they work and I have no fear of breaking them. (I have a stack of various AR handguards that I have destroyed over the years)

My background is similar to yours. I am a L.E. trainer and patrol supervisor in my agency (I am the range master over the entire program).

I spent a stint wearing green and eating my meals out of a thick plastic bag marked "Meals Ready to Eat" while trapsing around hot and humid, jungle covered country where people not of the same mind set or political beliefs shot at you, before getting into civilian L.E.

Once on the civilian side of carrying a gun for a living, I spent 7 years on SWAT in several positions, but the entire time I was also a firearms instructor for the department and the team. I left the team a couple of years ago to pursue a promotion and to ease up on my insane schedule, much to the gratitude of my better half. (she HATED the SWAT gig)

I am now a full time patrol supervisor and 3/4 time range master for the department.

I initally picked up the 556 to evaluate as a possible patrol rifle candidate for our patrol rifle program. My vote to get away from the AR based direct gas system was veto'ed by the powers that be, due to it being the industry standard. I was given the "green light" to continue my test and abuse of the 556 as a potential replacement candidate rifle, in the event that my predictions of parts failure and armoring needs of the AR system proves true. So far, the selected guns are holding their own, but they are new and we haven't shot them nearly as much as I would like to.

As for the 556, I too am a serious SIG fan, but along the same lines, I respect function as much as form. I have kept my mods to the 556 modest and cosmetic so that I can give the gun the honest eval that it deserves. I would love to see the aftermarket take off for this rifle, as I see the serious potential it has.

I like the replacement front take down pin you talked about, as I don't see the need for the double $crew set up that is in place with the factory system either. I also agree with your comment on the grip-gap plug. It is standard AR in that respect and I have the same problem as you. So far, my foamy ear plug I shoved in the gap is holding it's own... (field expedient but functional)

I have also found the same problem with the iron sight set up. The fold down factory sight is flimsy and inconsistant in adjustment at best and the front sight is, as you said, too short to work in conjunction with BUIS designed for the AR system. I did get a DPMS Mangonel rear BUIS to mount up and put me only about 6 inches high at 100 yards, so I settled on it until the market catches up and a SIG specific site is made.

I am in the process of putting as many rounds as I can through my 556 before I have to adjust the gas port, without cleaning the rifle, mostly to see how far I can push the system and keep it reliable. I have far surpassed any AR that I have experience with as far as reliability goes and the need for a break down and cleaning. (About 2100 rounds so far)

It took me a while to get used to the trigger as well, but not long and once I did, I find that I actually like it better than the standard AR set up. As far as the safety and mag release go, it took me about 10 minutes with the rifle to get comfortable with it and haven't looked back since. I do have pretty decent sized paws, so I am sure that helped. I do have to reach for the mag release, but not by much.

Anyway, it was good to see your perspective and I appreciate the opportunity to compare notes.

Thanks
Stay safe,
-Tac

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Arizona

After visiting Griffin-Tactical, I just placed an order for a new charging handle.... Morris, you are a bad influence my friend... my wife will likey use your name in vain... but don't worry.. you are in good company! Smile

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 103 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Then there is always www.sigarms556.com too . . . . Twisted Evil

Thanks for your thoughts