Gunfighter

Semper_Fi · Last edited by Semper_Fi on Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:05 am; edited 5 times in total

My group independently tested six (6) "off the shelf" 7.62 x 51 carry ammunitions for short-to-mid range use:
1) 165g Black Hills
2) 165g Federal Premium
3) 150g Hornady
4) 168g Hornady TAP
5) 165g Remington AccuTip
6) 168g Winchester Ballistic Silvertip
We fired 20 rounds of each ammunition through a DPMS AR-10 equipped with a 20", 1:10 rifled barrel and stayed below 170g weight bullets to maintain maximum stability with 1:10 rifling at 300 yards.
Our objective was to find the two most powerful, accurate ammunitions and those top two were:

Remington 165g AccuTip
100 yds....2497 fps, 2291 ft.lbs.
200 yds....2305 fps, 1964 ft.lbs.
300 yds....2121 fps, 1672 ft.lbs.

Winchester 168g Ballistic Silvertip
100 yds....2490 fps, 2297 ft.lbs.
200 yds....2303 fps, 1976 ft.lbs.
300 yds....2129 fps, 1690 ft.lbs.

All six are premium grade ammo and when we further considered ballistic gel profiles, ease of (semi-automatic weapon) magazine feeding and chambering, price, availability and ease in ordering large quantities from the manufacturer, our final selection for .308 carry is Remington's 165g AccuTip.

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 103 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Why no 110 grain TAP?

Semper_Fi · Last edited by Semper_Fi on Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:19 am; edited 3 times in total

Published data for the 110 grain 7.62 x 51 TAP round is:

100 yards....velocity = 2830 fps, energy = 1956 ft. lbs.

200 yards....velocity = 2519 fps, energy = 1549 ft. lbs.

300 yards....velocity = 2228 fps, energy = 1212 ft. lbs.

At 300 yards the 110g TAP round delivers 1212 ft. lbs. of energy as compared to 1672 ft. lbs. for the 165g AccuTip and 1690 ft. lbs. for the 168g Ballistic Silvertip. That's 460 and 478 ft. lbs. respectively less energy on the target at 300 yards.

110g .308 TAP is mission specific 'tactical' ammunition and would not be my ammunition of choice for work beyond 200 yards.

Semper_Fi · Last edited by Semper_Fi on Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm; edited 3 times in total

Morris,
In reviewing Hornady's 110g .308 TAP tech specs, the round has a unique velocity/energy curve and it was explained that Hornady created this round specifically for LE applications where nearly all .308 work is performed at distances less than 100 yards. The 110 grain ballistic tip bullet coupled with Hornady's choice of powder creates a very fast, flat, short distance trajectory that disipates energy quickly when a solid object is struck.

The 110g ballistic tip TAP round fills the gap between 90g .308 frangible ammunition and +150g .308 ammunition.

Hornady's .308 110g TAP round is ideal for urban LE applications and Hornady should be commended for designing LE specific ammunition.

Thank you for your service...

Semper_Fi

Hornady TAP pistol and rifle ammunitions are premium grade and are designed for short-to-medium distance applications. TAP is mission specific ammunition which explains why Hornady .308 TAP rifle ammunition typically has slightly wider 300-500 yard groupings than do most other premium grade rounds.

yellowdog762 · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 46

Very good info, thank you for sharing this.

Also, I’d never really studied the TAP ammo although I’d heard good things about it.

If you decide to do any additional testing I’d like to see the same selection run through a few different rifles to verify that this isn’t just a pet load for one specific rifle.

Semper_Fi

I will be testing the six .308 ammunitions through a 22" 1:10 barreled Springfield Super Match M1A at distances up to 800 yards next week.

Which ammo, barrel type(s) and distances do you wish to have tested? Bolt action or semi-auto? Our ballistics data base is huge and the test data you want may exist.

maclean · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Western Washington

Semper_Fi · Last edited by Semper_Fi on Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:27 am; edited 4 times in total

Maclean,
Over the years Black Hills ammunition field test energy/velocity data comes very close to their published data...and this test was no exception. I also wanted to see if Black Hills accuracy was as good as our last test (2004) so we rigged up the benchrest gear and went to work.

Long story short, it's for good reason that the industry recognizes Black Hills as THE most accurate "off the shelf" ammunition. We fired 2 x 5 shot groups at each distance and at 100 yards our 5 shot groups averaged an amazing .412" using "entry hole epicenter measurements". 5 shot group diameters expanded at greater distances but this type of accuracy held true at all distances which is indeed custom ammo performance.

The test was performed using Black Hills .308 Winchester 168g Match Hollow Point (new manufacture) ammunition fired through an accurized Remington 700, 24" barrel with 1:10 rifling. Velocity/energy test results (averaged) are:

Muzzle velocity...2648 fps
100 yard vel......2453 fps
200 yard vel......2260 fps
300 yard vel......2079 fps

Muzzle energy......2577 ft.lbs.
100 yard energy...2207 ft. lbs.
200 yard energy...1874 ft. lbs.
300 yard energy...1577 ft. lbs.

Black Hills' accuracy is due to their ultra-high quality gun powders, use of highest quality metals, world class manufacturing methods and adhering to manufacturing tolerances that are within 1/10,000 of an inch.

These are fine patriots and our military and LEO's have a strong ally in the owners and staff at Black Hills.

Hope the data helps and many thanks for your service.

Semper_Fi · Last edited by Semper_Fi on Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total

As a follow up to the Black Hills .308 test, we extensively tested 5.56 ammunition last year and settled on Black Hills 5.56 60g V-Max (new brass) round as our AR-15 1:9 carry ammunition. We have a mixture of 1:9 and 1:10 5.56 barrels in the field and had to keep bullet weights under 65 grains.

For 1:9 barrels, the power and consistent accuracy of the 60 grain Black Hills V-Max round is outstanding.

yellowdog762 · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 46

>>>
Which ammo, barrel type(s) and distances do you wish to have tested? Bolt action or semi-auto? Our ballistics data base is huge and the test data you want may exist.
<<<
Thanks for asking.

I don’t have a particular configuration in mind as I have several .308s. I was more interested in the idea that one or two particular brands might tend to produce really good results in a variety of firearms. I figured that I’d look at price and availability of the top 1-3 and just shoot one of those with the idea that it would probably be OK in almost everything. I have battle rifles, not tack drivers, but I plan on getting something capable of pretty good accuracy and figured that I might as well already have ammo on hand that would probably shoot well out of it, until I got around to developing a pet load.

Just keep on passing out this kind of info. I really find it useful, much more so than some guy saying “You should shoot xxx brand because my daddy done killed seven bucks with it without ever missing”. Smile

Semper_Fi

We've tested a lot of 5.56 and 7.62 x 51 tactical ammunition over the years and gravitate toward the following "off the shelf" ammunition as first picks:

5.56 weapons (1:9 rifling)
60 grain Black Hills V-Max;
55 grain Remington AccuTip-V;
55 grain Winchester Ballistic Silvertip.

7.62 x 51 weapons
168 grain Black Hills Match Hollow Point;
165 grain Remington AccuTip;
168 grain Winchester Ballistic Silvertip.

In choosing tactical ammunition, test criteria has been:
1) Consistent accuracy;
2) Deliverable power (ft. lbs. delivered on target) at various distances;
3) Ballistic gel profiles;
4) Semi-automatic feeding and cycling characteristics;
5) Availability and Distributor Locations;
6) Price.

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 526 Location: Warrior Nirvana

A wealth of information Semper Fi, thanks. I can't wait to start the Hoffners Bolt Rifle program next year. One thing that you will learn, day one, guys it what load your particular rifle likes. We will also learn that in order to perform at a level that our rifle and ammunition will perform at we must reach deep into our body, mind, and soul, to get it done..that is the key.

We will master the one hole group at 100 because if you can't get it done there it does'nt get any better farther away.

Eventually we will get to 1000. When we do, a 175 grain bullet will be essential as the 168 will go sub sonic and keyhole at that distance though still easy enough to gat a keyhole hit at a thousand if required.

It's gonna be good.
Hoff

Semper_Fi

Hoff,
Will a tactical 7mm bolt action system be permitted for the program?

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 526 Location: Warrior Nirvana

No problem. I'm sure there will be a variety of calibers in attendance.
Hoff[i][/i]