Gunfighter

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

If the entire company showed the enthusiasm of Sig Academy headed by my buddy George Harris the entire company would be much better off.
Hoff

Guntrainer · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 19

Just as a point of reference, three of the last five ND's causing injury at Front Sight, a school generally attended by skilled operators, were commited by operators with Sigs.

Apparently, the pistols were holstered without decocking. OUCH.

At a class Bank ran several years ago, a LEO Instructor next to me holstered a P-220 without decocking. The guy was pretty clueless about it when Bank asked him to make things right.

I think the world of Bank, but I shoot a G-17. He is smooth as glass with his Sig.

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 38 Location: Arizona

Guntrainer.. that is a "shooter" problem, not a "gun" problem. We (my department) transitioned away from the G22 several years ago partially due to a spat of ND's where a couple left officer's with limps... and one medically retired. We transitioned to the P220 and underwent transition training, and continue that training every year. Haven't had a ND yet with the Sig. (knock on wood) It should be noted that this is not a Glock problem either (Don't want to start that fight). A big part of our success in preventing further ND's is due to CONSTANT reinforcement of the safety rules as they relate to trigger finger placement, combined with a holster switch that uses a rotating hood rather than a thumb-break (that can slip into the trigger guard). The hood holsters will not allow the hood to be closed on a Sig with the hammer back in the S/A notch, without the application of intentional force. This usually acts as a "reminder" to those that "forget" to decock before holstering.

From my perspective, the issue of ND's is very much a training issue rather than an equipment issue.

Guntrainer · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 19

Dear Tac

Any ND with a pistol is definitely an operator problem. I just read the info from a mail I got from F.S.

Glocks have their share of ND's as well. Some folks will NOT take training to heart! I doubt the folks on this forum have that problem.

Oddly enough, at the LETC I attended recently, almost ALL the sidearm malfunctions were experienced with 1911's. A Kimber really had a fit, and it was being fed hardball.

In Brian's class, we had one 870 Remmie experience a failure to feed. It seems a LEO Instructor put a round in the mag BACKWARDS. (snicker)

Better to sweat and "oopsie" while training than to bleed and die while fighting.

Liam · Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 84

First of all, any pistol without a thumb safety that locks the slide is prone to be pushed out of battery due to the friction against the holster. I would like to recommend a holstering procedure for TDA and DAO guns with or without a hammer. This also addresses the problem of carelessly holstering with the hammer back. When holstering the strong hand thumb rides behind and on top of the slide. This will not only keep the slide in battery but also alert the operator if the hammer is back. Some striker pistols will have a striker indicator protruding from rear face of the slide when the chamber is loaded. The thumb will be be able to read the indicator as well. (Regarding 1911s with thumb safety the thumb rides underneath the safety so that it stays on).

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

Good advice Liam, these are widely used and accepted techniques. Re-holstering the pistol is indeed a tactic.
Hoff

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 38 Location: Arizona

Back along the lines of the original post.... I recently picked up the first version of the new Sig P250 that I came across. It is a polymer framed, DAO compact 9mm, with factory night sights, 15 round magazine and a very smooth 6 pound trigger. The "fire control unit" is a self contained trigger/locking block/frame rail assembly, that is the serial numbered part (for the purposes of BATFE, similar to the lower of an AR rifle), and it can be removed and placed into a large, compact, or micro sized frame that is available in three different grip diameters, in order to fit different hand sizes... It is also "convertable" to different calibers from 9mm, 40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .45 ACP.

The P250 I picked up is the first released version, in the compact 9mm. I took it to the range today for the first time and shot about 350 rounds through it. Mostly various makes/weights of FMJ ball ammo, but also some Gold Dot, Winchester SXT and Federal Hydra shok ammo... It shot very much like any other SIG... That is to say, it was very accurate, completely reliable, and very smooth shooting. The recoil in 9mm is almost nonexistant and it was very easy to control in rapid fire.

The trigger, being DAO, is a little long on the reset, but once I got used to it, it didn't effect my spilt times as much as I was expecting.

If you are in the market for a new 9mm pistol, I would recommend taking a look at this one before I spent my money. In the long run, with the convertability feature, it could be your new 9mm/.40/.357 Sig/.45 pistol.... Smile

(Did I forget to mention how easy it was to clean? Smile

It literally took me 3-4 minutes from start to finish to get it completely clean and back in shooting order.)

-Tac

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

I have not yet shot the Sig P250 but am looking forward to trying it out. Seems like a nice pistol. What Did it cost you?

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 38 Location: Arizona

Hoff, I picked it up for right around $600. I think that might drop a little once more of them start hitting the shelves though. With as little machining as there is, when compared to a standard Sig, they should be alot cheaper to produce, so the price should show that.

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

Sig and cheaper are not really synonymous

Tac · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 38 Location: Arizona

Good point Hoff....

I think Bank Miller is gonna like this one! It is SMOOOOTH as far as that trigger goes. Very Happy

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

If we can ever pry that 229 out of his claws.