Gunfighter

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

Hoffner Debrief, Advanced Tactical Rifle
Klickitat County Washington

This will be a brief de-brief as I have not rested now for 36 hours, but I am motivated by the fact that many of you at the class worked the night shift before attending. The body will continue when the mind is willing.

Very warm, very windy, and extremely dusty describes the conditions for the Advanced Tactical Rifle course held at Klickitat County Washington. Extremely skilled, Determined, and resilient, describes the deputies and officers in attendance. Great job to all of you.

We started the class by building a warrior mindset before stepping onto the range, the training arena of the warrior battleground. As warriors if we are not going to give it one hundred percent on the range than we wont give it all we’ve got in the fight. Every one in Washington left it all on the range. At class conclusion all were covered head to toe in dirt and very piece of equipment had silt into the deepest voids. We learned much about our equipment and ourselves. The shooters performed intense physical and mental drills with enthusiasm.

We learned to fight through the threat engagement loop with skill and composure, actively scanning, presenting with Maximum speed, economizing motion to get to sights-on, slack-up quickly and stop the threat sooner. Completing the fight with second sight and then scanning for more. I have to admit it, guys, that you picked up on the famous Hoffner Active Scanning Drill very quickly. Fighting through the loop while including alternative positions, movement, team drills and communication is crucial to winning the ultimate fight and you guys got it done. Just one of the guys was Melissa, a deputy with Klickitat County, who by being just as fast, tough, and accurate as the others showed that you can be pretty and still be a kick butt lady warrior. She earned the respect of her fellow warriors and ALL of YOU have my deepest respect. Great job! Thanks to Dave L. for putting it all together, it’s clear that you care about your brother deputies much.

We are Law Enforcement warriors. The public expects us to be tougher, faster, stronger, and smarter than the rest. We thrive on adversity. We are running to the fight when others are running away. We are the Peacekeepers, to serve and protect the public, our loved ones and our country. We have the skill, the instruments, and the attitude. We will win, we will not be stopped, and we will never quit!
Hoff

Semper_Fi · Joined: 08 Jul 2007 Posts: 397 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

To the men and women of law enforcement....thank you for the sacrifices that you and your families make to ensure our safety!

markb · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 15 Location: WA

Brian, it was a great class. Learned a lot and hope to take more classes in the future. You got to love the wind and heat if you live in Klickitat County. Anyway, thanks again for the great class, I really enjoyed it. Also when I can shoot someone elses ammo, it's always good.

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Brian,

As always, it is a real treat to train with a gent who is a no BS, no chest thumping, no long winded resume type.

I am the fellow wearing the Glock shirt in the photos and I attended the second of the two classes. The training was hosted by the Klicitat County S.O. located on the central south border of Washington state, along a section of the Columbia River. I am thoroughly impressed that they managed to get nearly every one of their deputies to this training. The county is beautiful country and passing the deer to and from the range was fun.

The range was in a county rock quarry and range combined. It was excellent for containing rounds and allowing for serious rifle fire work. Oh yeah, it was windy and dusty. Dusty will come up later. Our class (#2) had a total of 9 deputies and officers and one LE firearms company owner (a vendor a few of us know from business contacts - great gent). About half of the class were instructors and all were familiar with the patrol rifle platform.

All of the patrol rifles were AR on day one. On day two, one deputy brought his H&K .45 subgun (wicked little bugger!). Of the ARs used, the brands were Colt, Bushmaster and my lonely DPMS. The business owner and one deputy used Colt commandos. Sights were iron, one aimpoint, one ACOG, and at least two EOTechs. Handguns were KCSO issued H&K ..45s and Glocks in the .40 flavor.

Saying it was dusty was an understatement. The dust in this range was fine, nearly talcum powder. It got into everything! In the afternoon of day two, the wind and sandstorms/dust was near constant. I would sometimes have to pause when shooting prone because a dust cloud would obscure the target. I am stripping my AR COMPLETELY down to get it all out. Rifles were exposed to this stuff constantly and yet, no big surprise to those who know the system, all but one worked with minor lubrication. One rifle had issues related to parts, not to conditions.

We worked all the positions in the dust, on some of the rocks and broken glass that was on the range (the range is open to the public and there will be those idiots that insist on shooting stuff like glass for fun). One student managed to lay on some hidden barbed wire to obtain a prone position by a patrol vehicle. Some hardcore and involved folks!

Firing this course allowed me to evaluate some products and further shake out my patrol rifle. My confidence in my platform (especially in what has been identified by "some" as a "tier 2" rifle) was solid and I was impressed with my tier 2 bugger although I will get a better mount for my Aimpoint (Larue). My present mount is a YHM mini riser with te low issue Aimpoint. Ideal for dot placement but not as sturdy as hoped. I reinforced some techniques and my fellow instructor and myself gleaned things to use for upcoming training for our own officers.

My fellow instructor and I are so impressed with the course that we look forward to hosting Brian in 2008. However, our range is a lush, grassy field bordered only by cows and some swamp areas (were doing scuba shooting Brian! Ha!).

I will personally endorse and recommend this training for experienced rifle shooters. I stress that this course is best for motivated citizens, officers and instructors who want to push their rifle skills above the standard threshold.

Hope to see you in our side of the state in 2008 Brian! Well done to all at my class. All were a great group that was fun to work and trainin with.

Ofc. Morris Parrish
Patrol/Firearms Instructor
Lake Forest Park (WA) PD

maclean · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Western Washington

I had an excellent time! I attended on the second two day class with my partner Morris. I'm the guy on position 1 next to Morris with the sunburned arms!

Mr. Hoffner had us thinking outside of our boxes and exposed us to some new ideas that we will be integrating into our training program.

I was impressed with all of the participants, and saw some really great shooting. Not a soul on the range failed to jump in and work, getting dirty and brass burned and testing out unused muscles.

The dust. Oh yes, the dust! I am still removing that powder from my guns, my clothes, my magazines, and my nose! Other than the dust, the range provided by KCSO was awesome, and many many thanks to Dave for setting this up! We owe you partner, bring your poncho and come shoot on the wet side.

I ran a Colt 6721 both days, having cleaned it and lubed up the night prior to the class with MMC Synthetic metal conditioner. It's pink, but it works as well as anything I have ever seen. The gun ran fine both days with no cleaning in between. I did find a bad magazine for the trash heap on day two, but discovered it before it was a real issue.

The class was a good primer to Mr. Hoffner's concepts. I would suggest it for advanced LEO and civilian shooters. This is not a basic class, but an excellent opportunity to sharpen the skills of an operator and shake out what works and what doesn't. I can easily see taking more rifle classes with Mr. Hoffner and improving on the concepts he exposed us to.

Morris and I are going to do our best to try and host Mr. Hoffner out west, as we feel he has much to offer at a reasonable price. He is high energy and knows how to relay critical concepts well.

Bring your cash - he also has an amazing array of truly useful magazine pouches and holster platforms. I used one of his minimalES AR magazine pouches through the whole class, and was quite pleased with the purchase.

Ofcr. Jackson Beard
Support Services/Firearms Instructor
Lake Forest Park PD (WA)

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

Morris and Jackson,
It was very clear in class that you guys have your stuff together. Good equipment, very familiar with it, and the right mindset, Keep training. Hopefully we will put another class together. We need to get LEOs from other states to attend. Washington has alot to offer including the place to go for good training. Thanks for your de-briefs.
Hoff

jazor

I was in the first class and work for Klickitat County, I am the guy with the boonie hat shooting next to the officer with the black vest with police on the back. Great class had me thinking out of the box .

I used my personal Olympic arms K3b with an EOtech. Had one problem the first day with a round going backwards in the chamber. When Brian tried to get it out the bolt closed and pushed the bullet back in the case. All the powder came out and coated my chamber. Needless to say it gummed up the works.

The movement drills were good,as were all the drills. The only thing that I found hard to do was always putitng my rifle on safety after the second sight. Personally I have to change the way I do things and work on things. I found that some of my training needs to change. But overall very good course and can not wait for it to come around again. I have all ready asked out range master to get Brian out here again.

Now on to the dust, our range is not normally so dusty. We just had some dirt trucked in by the road department and they tore up the range.

I found out my rifle will work as long as I do my part. I use a Springfield 1911-A1 and it ran coated with dust.

Very Happy

with the training.

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

I remember that bullet comming apart in your chamber, bummer, but a quick swab and you had it up and running. The rifle performed well and like the other shooters with the Eotech your accuracy was subperb.
Building the safety reflex in the reactive mind takes alot more repetition then we were able to get in two days but once built it is sweet. We remained disciplined as to build the reflex but in the fight if you know that there are multiple threats you will go sights on, slack up to the next threat, immediately, without engaging the safety. As for presentation speed using the safety the class was very fast posting hits in well under .50 seconds. Hit Hard, Hit Fast.
Hoff

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Seattle Metro Area

jazor

Yes myself and Steve picked up the 1911 stuff Brian brought along. There is a small group of us that use the 1911 for duty.

Thanks Brian, I should have asked my question about second sight earlier. Now I understand it better.

keep up the good work

wichaka · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 78 Location: Washington State

It was a warm 2 days, but some of the best rifle training I've had.

I've had the chance to go thru some stuff with Clint Smith, when he was in Yakima some years ago for the WSLEFIA conference, and Hoff's class is every bit as good as what Clint offered.
Guess I shouldn't say that, now his prices will go up? Very Happy

Very much like a class where work is involved. After 2 days the muscles were feeling it, but with all that was presented, positions, 2nd sight etc., it will be remembered for a long time.

I know there were some who may not have bought into the 'warrior' thing, but having seen the elephant a few times myself, and knowing where it poops, one has to have some kind of mind set.........if not, you'll be playing catch up out there on the street, should something hit the fan. And that's not the place to be behind the eight ball!

You want to be one up on everyone around you, and always have an ace hiding in the hole somewhere.........proper mind set is a must! Glad you incorporated it into the class Brian! touche'

I think I was one of the few that didn't have a jam at anytime during the class. I was the one in the red hat, in the first few pics.

The class is second to none of the classes I've been thru, and I've been thru a bunch. Hoff has done his homework with this class, a must attend for all who are serious about the rifle!

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

Thanks Whichaka, Your mindset was very apparent in class and I was very pleased that those who started out a little hesitant really warriored-up by the end of the class.
When, suddenly, you find yourself in the fight for your life, winning is all that matters…and you gatta want it.
Hoff

MLI103 · Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

Finally have some time to discuss the Advanced Rifle Class I attended last weekend in Klickitat Co., WA. I was back to work the next day, so after a 6 hour drive home, the priority was to get my equipment cleaned and ready for duty ASAP.

I would agree with Brian that the conditions were hot, windy and dusty. My body and my equipment were the proof at the end of the day. However my mind told me it "was all good" all day, everyday. We don't get to pick the time and location for a sudden violent encounter, so get down and dirty wherever you are and win the fight. On my way down to the class I stopped and saw a good LE buddy who was involved in a shooting several days earlier. After talking for a while, we both agreed that the proper mindset is what will get you through the fight and home and the end of the day. Needless to say, my mind was right when I got to the class.

I have had the opportunity over the years to attend some great training from great instructors, however few talk about training your mind. Brian's got it right...he makes sure that his students have the proper combat mindset before they walk out on that range. Without a proper mindset and the will to survive, the skills you have become somewhat irrelevant. I appreciate Brian's no nonsense approach to training. Once he has your mind focused, it's onto the range for some quality rifle training. I had been getting Brian's newletter for a while and agree 100% with the training and mental conditioning that he promotes.

I definitely picked up some skills that I don't practice enough. I was glad to see that Brian really reinforced getting a second sight and then reevaluting. After that the Active Scanning drills were outstanding. I must admit that for a short period I was irritated that everyone else got to shoot, but me....however that was my mistake for not picking up on the cues sooner. I just thought that Brian was really fast moving up and down the line! I thought the alternative shooting position drills were a great reminder that we may have to improvise based on the terrain and cover available.

As for equipment, I was running a Colt Commando with an Eotech and GG&G flip up rear sight. Being from the rainy side of the state, I have my rifle well lubricated with oil. When I arrived in Goldendale and observed all the dust and the wind, I figured I might have some issues as the day went on. With all the dust blowing around, I started to have some feeding issues at the very end of Day # 1, however they were easy to clear and continue on. When I pulled my rifle apart that night, I had sand and dirt in every crevase, so I was impressed that I only had one or two minor feed issues at the end of the day. I figured the range conditions were ideal for testing my equipment, so I decided to run my rifle with dry lube on Day # 2. Since my rifle was really gritty after Day # 1, I thought the dry lube would reduce the amount of dust and sand in my rifle. I stripped it down that night and sprayed the bolt and surfaces with Remington Dri-Lube. I was a little apprehensive after I applied the Dri-Lube, since I usually run my rifle well lubricated. The bolt carrier was dry to the touch, but did have that hint of slick coating from the Teflon. I ran it on Day # 2 with no malfuctions that were weapon related. I did pull the bolt out at lunch time and it was dry and had no sand or dust at all. I was suprised and impressed with the Dri-Lube performance. I sprayed it with a light coat at lunch and back to the range for the seond half of the day. At the end of the day, I still was having no malfunctions and Brian said we had one more "mission". I loaded three 30 round mags and back on line. I decided since it was the last drill for the class, I would put the Dri-Lube to the final test. Once the threat was identified, I switched my rifle to auto and starting firing 2-3 round bursts. Three mags...Still no malfunctions !!!
Needless to say I was impressed with the Dri-Lube. I would recommend it to those that work in windy and dusty conditions on a regular basis.

I did have several feed issues during the two day class, however they were due to the sand in my mil-spec magazines with green followers binding slightly. I also was testing out some of the new Magpul Pmags and was very impressed with their performance. Again...I wasn't sold on the polymer magazines, but after dropping them repeatedly, filling them with sand and rocks and then having one of them stepped on...I say they are good to go!! Not one issue with them throughout the two days.

The bottom line is Brian has got his stuff together and the class was outstanding. Everyone gave a 100% and walked away from the class with the skills and the proper mindset that will get us through the fight and home to our families.

Thanks again Brian...you got it right!!

Doug

Hoff · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 506 Location: Warrior Nirvana

Doug,
Good debrief, thanks. I was impressed with your rifle using the Remington Dry lube in the harsh dust conditions. It worked well and looking at it, during the onslot of dust and dirt, the bolt carrier group was clean and slick, looked like teflon. By the way, the operator was good too, good shooting. I'm glad you appreciate the mind set, every one seemed to agree how imprtant it is to understand how thw mind works, how to train it, and use it to win.
Thanks for being there, hope to see you again in training. Until then stay sharp, and aware.
Hoff

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Thanks for the input on the PMAGs. I really wanted to see how'd they do. I should also note some sand binding issues at the end with my GI mags too.