Gunfighter

M.W. · Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 130 Location: inside the loop

There seems to be some very saavy Warriors in this forum so let's hear how you would respond to this situation.

Late at night at a pay-to-park lot in downtown Houston you are almost to your car.
Two young thug types are side-by side,a couple yards apart, vectoring and approaching deliberately towards you.
At about 20 yards away on one of them you see something shiney flash in his right hand and he quickly gets it back behind his right leg,the other moves his right hand under his hooded sweatshirt towards his front waistband but keeps his hand out of sight under the shirt. Then it comes "Say bro',you got some few dollars in your wallet for us tonite?"

You are armed in your normal carry mode and decide that maybe just maybe thery are not collecting donations for the Red Cross so you ...
do what?

Who's first? and why...
If you see two,are there others unseen? etc...

specrat · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 201 Location: the shop

Ok, I'm not proud, I'll jump in first on this one and be the first to admit what we're all thinking we would really do here... I'd hide in a corner and yell "not in the face! not in the face!".
Right?

robert · Site Admin Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 50 Location: Houston

In the example and I could not avoid the situation all together by walking into a restaurant or across the street…and if I was with my wife and two young children. I would tell my wife to get in the car with the kids while I engage the two thugs using another vehicle for cover if available. I would draw my weapon at maximum speed while yelling stop…stop. (When thugs ask you for money they are casing you and how they start their attack. I also would not allow thugs to get close to my Family especially in the circumstances described in this case.)

In the event that they did not comply and continued towards myself and family or attempted to pull a weapon I would shoot the closest threat first then the second threat. I would perform a “second sight” keeping my sights on and slack up on my trigger ready for the threats to continue the fight. Once two threats were clearly out of the fight I would then scan for additional threats. Once everything was clear I would get in my car and drive to a more secure location while calling the police.

My logic in this case is my perception would be imminent danger of my life and family and I stopped the threat. I also know that action beats reaction and I want absolute control of the situation and would not leave the safety of my family in the hands of unscrupulous people.

In the event that the two threats complied usually in this type of situation they run the other way and urinate in there own paints. I would drive off and have avoided an attack all together.

wichaka · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 78 Location: Washington State

First I would try to out smart them, and not let them both get up on me. I would try to get them to a position of advantage for me.

M.W. · Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 130 Location: inside the loop

Good answers Robert and Wichaka, and ermm well...Spec,hey if that works for you then OK,lol.

Rob,if you are not given a choice, I would suggest that your response should be the same whether your family is with you or not. You sound like a devoted father and they need very much for you to come home each night. When your wife says,"hun,you have blood on your shirt..." you can say "Yes,but it's not my blood..."

My layman's analysis...

A Hoffism I remember is that in almost all defense situations the information is going to be incomplete and imperfect at best. That is why there are many good points of view and why this is such a good learning forum.

The information given in this scenario is 1)someone(multiples of course are worse) is matching their movements to yours,i.e. intercept course,then they immediately get on my radar screen. They have to get close to me to get money,a female has an additional issue. 2) the "something shiney" and moved behind the leg is very likely a knife. Could be a anything,a nickel revolver,a mirror to look at himself,but I am betting a knife. Seeing that alone is enough for me to move to an orange close to red alert mode.
** Having trained a year or so with Tim Mousel and his Kali knife fighting classes,I have great respect for that weapon. A streetfighter with a knife knows (and I know it too) that he has to close the distance to use it. He knows it's silent killing nature,he is ruthless in the extreme,and is very quick. I have never seen an overweight lardtail
knifefighter,fat gun bangers yes,but not the knifers. Most are thin,strong Velociraptors and are absolutely deadly.**
3)Even though neither one is closer to me than the other at 60 feet I can not see both hands on either person and that is a huge problem. The
hands kill you..add to that the verbalization threat and that does it for me.

My pistol is drawn and SOSU on the guy with knife,commanding them to STOP IMMEDIATELY. My challenge is not the classic "show me your hands" but rather,"move your hands slowly out to the side". (and I don't give a hoot if they understand English or not) As Robert said, unless they turn and run away,or if a hand so much as twitches in my direction my Glock 23 starts speaking. One shot on each to "reset their clocks" as Brian teaches and then I pound the guy with the knife with groin shots till he drops. If he wants to get to me then he will be on his belly with a broken pelvis dragging like the Teminator at the end of the movie.Then the gun guy gets a second helping if he is still standing. I figure it this way,if I don't engage the knife guy first then in the time it takes the gunner to draw, get a bead on my moving frame and spray lead,the knifer is on me and I am bleeding out.

...Even if I get them both but I die too,that is NOT a win.

maclean · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Western Washington

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Ah heck, yard my mother-in-law from the car into the parking lot, make asses and elbows while yelling, "she's loaded! Take her, just ask her!" Twisted Evil

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Seattle Metro Area

Ok, ok. For reality. Get to a better vantage position, grip the pistol and if necessary, draw. Do you have or perceive the ability and opportunity of said thugs to start a fight? Do you feel your life is in or about to be in jeopardy? Answer the questions, if a yes, draw and get ready to fight. Usual human response will be fight or flight. They will try to fight and attack you or, seeing your handgun, flee the area for better pickings.

It's happened to me a couple of times in downtown Seattle under similar circumstances.

When in doubt, draw and evacuate, if you can. Otherwise, be ready to bring to fight to them if needed (and for goddess' sake, keep your situational awareness way up). Or, get back in the car, lock up and draw. Either they move on or they get stupid and try a car jack. But at least you are in a vehicle that offers some protection and mobility.

Lots of variables in your scenario. Lots of things we can all do.

maclean · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Western Washington

Guardian · Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

I also carry a small can of Mace Peper Gel and would consider deploying this first (left hand, or at the same time as drawing my weapon, right hand). There is a fine line when it comes to violating someones civil rights (and costing us big bucks to defend ourselves). While I would act (meaning shoot) to beat their reaction of I instictively thought I had no choice, I might instead hit one or both with the Pepper Gel and bug out without waiting to find out if I was dealing with a knife or a gun (or maybe nothing but an attitude). Note the gel avoids the blowback potential of the sprays and has a UV dye for later identification.

maclean · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Western Washington

specrat · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 201 Location: the shop

My fav is the Bi-Polar Drill (soon to be as internationally known as the Tueller Drill and the Int'l Laser Rule) where as soon as you see them coming, turn your back to them at the front bumper of your vehicle, and as they approach, turn around spraying a strong arc of p.iss all around in their direction while yelling incoherently about the aliens coming to get you and foaming at the mouth.
Very effective.
I've seen it work on countless officers and others.
If you really want to sell it, yell something about being the Mayor - ooh! or the President! I can't remember how many times I arrested The President. Jesus once too.

Morris · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Seattle Metro Area

A laughable but utterly true observation.